Episode 163: We the Doers: Maureen Klovers and April Harding Measure Government Success
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Maureen Klovers and April Harding, co-founders of We the Doers, who tackle the big question: How do we make government more efficient and effective? They discuss their project to measure success in government based on what matters to citizens and use that framework to see what changes make a difference. Maureen and April also describe their initiative to map out the convoluted employment termination process across agencies and usher in “Fast But Fair Firing.” The episode digs into the importance of data standardization, problem definition and implementation of reforms, and why biannual budgeting might be the key to fixing Congress. Together, they figure out how to, as Robert puts it, “Stop the crazy, restore sanity.”
Show Notes:
Jen Pahlka: Recoding America Book
Senate Committee on Finance: The Unemployment Insurance Modernization and Recession Readiness Act
Gary Bass (Of the Gary Bass Rule of Three): Biography
We the Doers: wethedoers.org
POPVOX Foundation: Departure Dialogues Project
We the Doers: Workshop Report
What's on the GovNavigators' Radar?
June 22nd:
National Academy of Public Administration Celebrating the American Public Servant Gala (GovNavigators sponsor)
June 23-24th:
June 24th:
Celonis Process Intelligence Day (GovNavigators sponsor)
Episode 162: Back in the Saddle at GSA: Larry Allen on the FAR Overhaul, AI in Acquisition, and What's Coming Next
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam welcome Larry Allen, Associate Administrator for the GSA's Office of Government-wide Policy, now 15 months into the role. Larry brings a big update on the historic FAR overhaul, with the first four chapters expected to be out for public comment within the next two weeks. He describes the enthusiastic engagement from the acquisition workforce and shares what it will really take to relieve the burden on contracting professionals as agencies rebuild after staffing losses. The show digs into AI's growing role in acquisition, the administration's ambitious executive order agenda, and how the GSA has maintained its momentum through the transition to a permanent administrator. Larry also covers the complete overhaul of the Federal Property Management Regulations, a revamp of the Federal Travel Regulations, and drops some breaking per diem news for FY27.
Show Notes:
GSA Office of Government-wide Policy: OGP Overview
GAO: The Nation's Fiscal Health Report
Social Security Trustees: 2026 Annual Report Summary
FISA Section 702: U.S. Intelligence FISA Section 202 Overview
Financial Data Transparency Act: Final Rule Details
FAR Overhaul: RFO
DEI EO 2025: Ending Radical And Wasteful Government DEI Programs And Preferencing
DEI EO 2026: Addressing DEI Discrimination by Federal Contractors
Firm-Fixed Price Contracting EO: Promoting Efficiency, Accountability, and Performance in Federal Contracting
GSA: Edward C. Forst Sworn in as GSA Administrator
GSA: Federal Managment Regulation
GSA: Federal Travel Regulation
EO on Gold Standard Science: Restoring Gold Standard Science
House Armed Services Committee: FY27 NDAA House Version
What's on the GovNavigators' Radar?
June 16th:
VeeamOn Tour DC 2026 at Convene, Washington DC (Adam moderating)
Defense One Tech Summit, Arlington, Virginia
June 22nd:
National Academy of Public Administration Celebrating the American Public Servant Gala, Library of Congress (GovNavigators sponsor)
June 23rd:
ACT-IAC Insights to Action for Procurement Market Dynamics (Robert co-moderating)
June 24th:
Episode 161: As Close as We Can Get to Breaking News? SIN Launch at Grant QSMO
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Andrea Sampanis, Director of the Grants Quality Service Management Office (Grants QSMO) at HHS, and Stacie Massey, Deputy Director for Grants and Financial Reporting at the Office of Budget and Management for the state of Ohio. Andrea takes us on a deep dive into the new SIN launch for grants management services, walking us through what the new Special Item Number (SIN 518210GM) means for federal agencies and how cooperative purchasing opens it up to state, local, and tribal governments as well. Stacie brings the recipient side of the equation, sharing what it's actually like to manage $11 billion in grants across a patchwork of systems and agencies, and why this SIN changes the game. They also dig into the shift from compliance-heavy grants management to outcomes-focused oversight, the proposed Uniform Grants Regulation and what it means for the field, and why data standards are the foundation everything else is built on.
Show Notes:
Federal News Network: Grants QSMO Shifting Approach to Meeting Market Demands
OMB: Proposed Uniform Grants Regulation (UGR) — Comments Due July 13, 2026
Policy/Career Executive Order: Implementing Schedule Policy/Career in the Excepted Service
AI Executive Order: Promoting Advanced Artificial Intelligence Innovation and Security
What's on the GovNavigator's Radar?
June 10–11th: Government Service Delivery 2026 Conference
June 11th: GovExec 35th Annual Government Procurement Conference
July 21–23rd: AGA Professional Development Training (PDT)
Episode 160: Welcome Back, Oracle! Charles Cooper Covers the Midterm Countdown and Congressional Chaos
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam welcome back Charles Cooper, Managing Director at Brumidi Group and GovNavigators' resident oracle of all things Capitol Hill. With six months until the midterms and a staggering legislative to-do list full of reconciliation, the farm bill, the surface transportation bill, 12 appropriations bills, the NDAA, FISA, and more, Charles breaks down why Congress is already fracturing along election-year fault lines. He explains why the White House and rank-and-file members are increasingly operating on different frequencies, makes his signature bold prediction on a government shutdown, and offers a candid look at what savvy clients are doing right now to position themselves for the lame duck and beyond. He also weighs in on the bipartisan fraud prevention push out of House Oversight and whether momentum can survive the politics. As always, the oracle has spoken.
Show Notes:
House Oversight Committee: Markup Sweeping Legislation to Stop Fraud in Federal Programs
OPM: Draft Rule Eliminating Time-in-Grade Requirement
OMB: Cybersecurity Incident Logging Update
NDAA: House Armed Services Committee Markup
What's on the GovNavigator's Radar?
June 3rd:
House Oversight Committee Hearing on Medicaid Fraud
June 5th:
June 10-11th:
June 11th:
June 16th:
Episode 159: Pop-up Episode: Remembering our Heroes on Memorial Day
In this Memorial Day pop-up episode of the GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam break down a week of Washington false starts and delayed announcements, namely the Senate’s stalled reconciliation push and the White House pulling the plug on a major AI EO signing at the last minute. They also spotlight a new HHS fraud oversight initiative aimed at tightening grant accountability using AI-powered audit review. Plus, a reminder of the real meaning behind Memorial Day as the hosts honor those who made the ultimate sacrifice.
Episode 158: Robbie Holmes on AI, Identity, and What Government Gets Wrong About Technology
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Robbie Holmes, founder and CEO of Holmes Consulting Group and member of the GovNavigators Network, for a wide-ranging and deeply personal conversation on technology, government modernization, and what it really takes to build systems that serve people. Robbie traces a remarkable career arc, from the New York City welfare system and Sony Music to Zagat Survey, Google, USDS, and local government, and draws from each stop to make the case for pragmatic, constituent-centered technology. He reflects on his evolution from AI skeptic to cautious optimist, explains why so many well-intentioned government systems have created more friction than they've solved, and makes a compelling argument for why identity infrastructure and unified case management should be the government's next big bets.
Show Notes:
CMS: Nationwide Moratorium on Hospice and Home Health Agency Enrollment
GAO: 2026 Annual Report on Fragmentation, Overlap, and Duplication
House Oversight Committee: Markup on Legislation to Stop Fraud in Federal Programs
Federal News Network: House Committee Advances 9 Anti-Fraud Bills
NPR: Senate Votes to Kickstart Reconciliation to Fund ICE and CBP
Events on the GovNavigators' Radar:
May 21st: PSC FedHealth Conference
Episode 157: Inside America’s Global Back Office: How the State Department Keeps Government Running Overseas
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Adam and Robert sit down with Daniel Gaush, Acting Director of the International Cooperative Administrative Support Services Service Center at the U.S. Department of State, for a fascinating look at one of the federal government’s largest and least understood shared services operations.
Daniel explains how the ICASS system coordinates administrative support for more than 300 federal entities across embassies and consulates worldwide, everything from HR and motor pools to security, facilities, and logistics. He shares stories from a 24-year career spanning Morocco, China, Afghanistan, and Washington, including negotiating trade agreements, touring a Chinese nuclear reactor, and managing support operations in wartime environments.
The conversation explores the promise and pain points of shared services: balancing costs, managing interagency consensus, handling global crises, and adapting to major structural changes, such as the integration of USAID functions into the State Department. Daniel also reflects on the unique culture of the Foreign Service and offers advice for the next generation of Americans considering international public service careers.
Show Notes:
Final Report from The President’s Council to Assess the Federal
Emergency Management Agency
What's on the GovNavigators' Radar?
May 13: House Oversight & Government Reform Committee Hearing: DoW Financial Management: Examining Progress and New Audit Approaches
May 14: House Oversight & Government Reform Hearing: Reducing America’s National Debt: Rooting Out Federal Waste, Fraud, and Overregulation
May 14-15: ACT-IAC’s Emerging Technology & Innovation Summit
Episode 156: Bots Writing RFPs? Josh Martin on the Future (and Risks) of AI in Procurement
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Adam and Robert sit down with the GovNavigator Network's Josh Martin, former Chief Data Officer for the State of Indiana turned founder and AI practitioner, for a candid, highly practical conversation about what AI can (and can't!) do in government today.
Josh shares how he’s building AI-powered tools to solve real-world problems, like instantly preparing for vendor meetings or streamlining procurement reviews, and explains why AI’s biggest value isn’t replacing people, but accelerating decision-making. He also offers a clear-eyed warning: agencies that over-automate without human oversight risk serious errors, hallucinations, and reputational damage.
We dive into how governments can responsibly adopt AI, the importance of understanding data and prompting, and why “personal responsibility” is the missing ingredient in most AI strategies. Josh also reflects on his transition out of government, what he misses, and where he sees the biggest opportunities for innovation across the public sector.
Show Notes:
Partial DHS funding measure passed
House Oversight advances nine anti-fraud bills
DoW strikes new AI deal with major companies
New EO pushing fixed-price contracting
What's on the GovNavigators' Radar?
May 2-4: Professional Services Council Annual Conference
May 5: AGA’s Performance Counts Summit
May 6: Service to America Medals
May 14-15: ACT-IAC’s Emerging Technology & Innovation Summit
Episode 155: Too Few Data Chiefs? Inside the Data Foundation and Deloitte's CDO Survey
This week on the GovNavigators Show, hosts Adam and Robert sit down with Dr. Amanda Cash of the Data Foundation and Dr. Adita Karkera of Deloitte to unpack the latest Federal Chief Data Officer (CDO) Survey and what it reveals about the state of data, AI, and capacity across government.
Drawing on six years of survey data, Amanda and Adita explain how the federal CDO role has evolved since the Foundations for Evidence-Based Policymaking Act and why today’s environment may be the most challenging yet. With more than half of CDOs operating with five or fewer staff, agencies are being pushed to do more with less, even as expectations around AI, data governance, and transparency continue to rise.
The conversation explores the growing overlap between Chief Data Officers and Chief AI Officers, the risks and opportunities of combining those roles, and how agencies can use AI to compensate for workforce gaps. They also highlight the critical role of the federal CDO Council in enabling collaboration and scaling best practices across government.
Episode 154: Drew Friedman has the Scoop on the Federal Workforce
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Drew Friedman, reporter at Federal News Network and nominee for the ECHO Award for Best Government Management Journalist. Drew pulls back the curtain on what it's like to cover the federal workforce in one of the most turbulent periods in recent memory.
The conversation covers the shifting landscape of federal hiring, including OPM's push toward skills-based hiring in the IT space, the latest on Schedule F's successor, and the growing body of litigation challenging the administration's workforce actions, as well as budget issues, and the administration's push to shrink the federal real estate footprint. Drew also reflects on what it takes to keep up with stories this big, and why the Federal News Network team's collaborative approach has been essential to staying on top of it all.
Episode 153: Jason Robertson on Wildfire, Workforce Gaps, and the Future of Federal Land Management
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Adam and Robert sit down with GovNavigators Network member Jason Robertson, former regional CFO and senior leader at the U.S. Forest Service, for a conversation on what happens when government systems face real disruption.
Jason shares insights from his two decades in federal service, including managing wildfire funding, overseeing recreation and land use across multiple states, and navigating the complex financial realities of public land management. He breaks down how wildfire policy, procurement, and interagency coordination are evolving, and why looming fire risks and structural changes are colliding in real time.
Now in the private sector, Jason offers a candid view into the massive workforce and knowledge gaps emerging across agencies, and the opportunities those gaps create for new models of support, consulting, and innovation. From shifting procurement pathways to rethinking how agencies deliver on their missions, we explore how disruption is reshaping the federal landscape.
Episode 152: Inside the House Floor: Max Spitzer on Rules, Power, and Congressional Chaos
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam sit down with Max Spitzer, former Assistant Parliamentarian in the U.S. House of Representatives, for a behind-the-scenes look at one of the most misunderstood offices in Congress. Max explains how the House Parliamentarian keeps the chamber running day to day, from advising the presiding officer in real time to shaping precedent that governs how legislation moves. He shares stories from the House floor, including high-pressure moments during the 2008 financial crisis!
The conversation also dives into the mechanics of power in the House: how rules actually work, why the Rules Committee can override almost anything, and what would happen if control of the House flipped mid-Congress. Max also offers a candid take on congressional dysfunction, and why fixing the rules, not just the Speaker, may be the key to reform.
Show Notes:
OMB's FY27 budget proposal
OMB's new memo requiring IT spending data
GAO's emerging tech risks
Federal buildings fail to reach occupancy benchmark
What's on the GovNavigators' Horizon:
Episode 151: Rewriting FedRAMP: Inside the Push to Modernize Federal Cloud Security
This week on the GovNavigators Show, Adam and Robert sit down with Ryan Hoesing, Chief of Staff for FedRAMP, and Nicole Thompson, Security Director, for a deep dive into one of the most consequential federal IT programs undergoing transformation today.
Ryan and Nicole walk through the sweeping changes to the FedRAMP program and explain what the new “FedRAMP 20x” approach means for agencies and industry. They unpack the shift from authorization to certification, the move toward continuous and machine-readable security data, and why redefining FedRAMP’s role is critical to making cloud adoption actually work across government.
Show Notes:
What's on the GovNavigators' Radar:
Mar 31: Oracle Federal Forum
Episode 150: AI for Readiness: Making Sense of Defense Data with Rob Bocek
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Rob Bocek, Chief Commercial Officer at Virtualitics, for a conversation on how artificial intelligence is reshaping defense readiness.
Drawing on his wide experience from Navy Special Warfare to Microsoft, Rob explains how AI can help the Department of Defense move beyond fragmented data and toward faster, more informed decision-making. We explore how these tools surface hidden readiness gaps, improve situational awareness, and support leaders operating in high-stakes, time-sensitive environments.
Rob also walks through how Virtualitics is helping defense leaders make sense of massive, fragmented datasets, using AI-powered analytics to surface hidden risks, identify readiness gaps, and support faster, more confident decision-making. He explains how their approach emphasizes explainable AI, enabling operators and commanders to trust and act on insights in real time.
Episode 149: Joel Hinzman: The Man Who Crashed the Internet (And Wired Congress)
This week on the GovNavigators Show, we're joined by Joel Hinzman, one of the most seasoned voices in government technology and policy, and a member of the GovNavigators Network. Joel has been walking the halls of Congress and the executive branch longer than most, and his career reads like a history of modern government IT. He helped move the House of Representatives onto the internet, put the Starr Report online (and yes, crashed the servers doing it), and spent years at GSA overseeing IT modernization and acquisition policy, before heading to Oracle.
In this conversation, Joel breaks down where Congress still struggles with technology, why AI is the next big test for Capitol Hill, and what the sweeping changes at GSA mean for companies trying to do business with the federal government. He also shares what he's up to now, helping clients navigate procurement, budgets, government affairs strategy, and how to actually turn lobbying relationships into business results.
Episode 148: Wynn Coggins on Leading Through Crisis, Chaos, and Change
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam welcome Wynn Coggins, former Acting Secretary of Commerce and now Chief Growth Officer at Management Science and Innovation, for a candid conversation on leadership forged through crisis, transition, and 35 years of federal service.
Wynn shares the lessons she's carried from her early days as a patent examiner through navigating COVID at the Department of Commerce, serving as Acting Deputy Secretary, and landing in the private sector at Deloitte before her current role. The throughline: surround yourself with people who challenge you, park your ego at the door, and build a culture where failing fast is a feature, not a flaw.
Robert and Adam also cover the week's big news: the introduction of the Federal Loan System Modernization Act of 2026, a bill that would finally bring a single platform to manage the government's sprawling loan portfolio, and the escalating standoff between the Department of Defense and Anthropic, which has now prompted the White House to direct agencies to cancel contracts with the AI company. Plus: Microsoft's major takedown of a global phishing operation responsible for 30 million fraudulent emails a month.
Episode 147: Stuck in Pilot Mode: Deep Grewal on the Federal AI Readiness Gap and the Data Problem No One Wants to Fix
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert Shea and Adam Hughes sit down with Deep Grewal, Vice President of Public Sector at MinIO, to unpack the findings of a new survey on the federal government’s AI readiness, and why so many agencies are still stuck in the pilot phase.
While AI ambition is everywhere, Deep explains that the real bottleneck is in data management. From lineage and governance to infrastructure, portability, and total cost of ownership, the conversation makes the case that the unglamorous foundational work will determine which agencies actually scale AI and which remain in perpetual experimentation.
They dig into the tension between cloud-first and cloud-smart, the rise of hybrid and sovereign architectures, the GPU and storage crunch, and why AI must become a mission-wide capability rather than a bolt-on “innovation project.” Deep also lays out a practical checklist for moving to enterprise AI: get your data house in order, modernize infrastructure, upskill the workforce, establish governance, and prove the ROI.
If you’re trying to move from AI pilots to real production, this episode is your roadmap.
Episode 146: The Oracle of Identity: Jordan Burris on Industrialized Fraud and the Government’s Daytona Moment
This special episode of The GovNavigators Show features a live conversation with Socure’s Jordan Burris, former chief of staff to the Federal CIO, recorded at the Government Executive Federal Technology Priorities Conference.
Jordan lays out a stark warning: modern fraud is not a series of isolated schemes, it’s an industrialized, AI-enabled ecosystem operating at global scale. He explains how adversaries are using the same large language models, automation, and data-sharing techniques as legitimate organizations to defeat traditional identity controls in days instead of months, creating what he calls a “zero-day” environment for fraud.
The discussion explores why long-standing federal fraud defenses are being outpaced, how commercial sectors have pulled ahead, and what agencies can do now to measure risk, modernize verification, and collaborate across silos. With hundreds of billions of dollars at stake each year, Jordan argues the government must move faster, test new approaches, and learn from industries already fighting these threats in real time.
If you care about improper payments, digital service delivery, customer experience, or cybersecurity, this is a roadmap for how identity has become the front line.
Episode 145: President’s Day Pop-Up: Shutdown Impacts, SBA 8(a) Cuts, and a $23 Trillion Reality Check
In this special President’s Day pop-up episode, the GovNavigators break down a fast-moving week in federal management and policy. They unpack the latest partial shutdown and what it really means for DHS employees, travelers, and the long-term outlook for TSA, along with the state of negotiations between the White House and Congress.
The conversation turns to the Congressional Budget Office’s new long-term deficit projection, the Small Business Administration’s termination of more than 150 8(a) contracts and what it signals for the federal contracting community, and a notable Washington Post release of a searchable database of federal AI use cases, and what it says about the government’s progress (and remaining challenges) in making data usable.
Episode 144: Back to School with Mike Wetklow
This week on The GovNavigators Show, Robert and Adam are joined by Venice Goodwine, former CIO of the Department of the Air Force and current CIO and Product Owner at Arlo Solutions, for a candid conversation about leadership, culture, and change across government.
Venice reflects on a remarkable career spanning more than three decades of active-duty and reserve service, senior executive roles at the Department of Agriculture and the Air Force, and hands-on leadership across nearly every military service. She shares how navigating wildly different organizational cultures shaped her leadership style, why mission understanding matters more than titles, and what it really takes to modernize enterprise IT at scale.
The discussion also dives into major accomplishments, including IT-as-a-service transformations, cybersecurity improvements, early GenAI experimentation inside DoD, and lessons learned from retiring (twice!) and choosing to keep contributing. Venice closes with advice for today’s public servants navigating uncertainty, efficiency mandates, and cultural resistance, emphasizing curiosity, coalition-building, and keeping the end mission in mind.